Super Smash Bros. Wii U & 3DS

[KamAlsh]

So, we were all right. Nintendo fucking swims to their desks through piles of beta, cancelled, unused games and expansions! Oh, well, at least we might get new characters for smash.

[Mellow]

So, we were all right. Nintendo fucking swims to their desks through piles of beta, cancelled, unused games and expansions! Oh, well, at least we might get new characters for smash.

 

At this point, I am fairly certain it is a fact that we are.

[giadrosich]

I am personally excited about Wii Fit Trainer, not only because of the inclusion of the game, but I was able to stump my husband in guessing the next character, even with hints. He's ALL into this stuff and he was like "woah, that's the WTF character for the game, no doubt."

[Mellow]

If Ghirahim doesn't make an appearance, I will probably cry.

[Netsrac]

I love that guy ^^. Like not in a weird way, but he was an awesome villain to fight in my opinion. I'd also like to see Skull kid though. KH 3D Sora would also be a nice addition.

[Three_Pendants]

Eh, leave Square Enix in the bubbling pit it fell into. I love Final Fantasy, but cannot stand much of Nomura's creations and how quickly he and his "new blood" have corrupted the company (Seven years making a game, where as Yasumi Matsuno gets tossed to the curb for taking three years on FFXII!). After FFXII the series has gone down hill in a fast way. That said if they want to include a character from one of the SNES FF's (I'm thinking either Cecil or Bartz) then by all means.

 

I would like to see Ghirahim join the Zelda ranks in SSB though, his moveset is already pretty much decided by his game of origin.

[Spire]

Nomura's best work was for FFVII, VIII, and X. I'm really not a fan of his work as a whole though. Kingdom Hearts was the beginning of zipper hell. Sazh Katzroy was the best part of FFXIII, but he wouldn't have existed had Barret not existed because XIII was largely a spiritual successor to VII, at least as far as concepts go. XV is the most accurate representation of Nomura's imagination. Clean, sleek, boring perfect-haired young guys in a modern world. Gameplay looks fun, but the character designs are atrocious and wholly uninteresting.

 

I don't think any single proper character from a Final Fantasy game would be fair for Smash representation. There is no dominant protagonist in the series, though Cloud Strife is honestly the most recognized. If Final Fantasy were to get Smash representation, they'd need to pick an archetype that most would recognize for its inclusion across the series. As such, I'd say the very best FF rep that could appear in Smash would be Black Mage:

He debuted in the original Final Fantasy on the NES. Of all the playable characters from that game, he has become the most consistent staple throughout the franchise. Alongside White Mage, Ninja, Moogle, and Cactuar, Black Mage appeared in two Mario sports games created by Square-Enix (Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and Mario Sports Remix); having already appeared alongside Mario characters does give you some credential. Final Fantasy helped move the NES and its sequels helped the SNES. Despite Final Fantasy's main series departure with FF7, Square-Enix and Nintendo have had a healthy relationship since. Square no longer purports Sony exclusivity with XIII and XV appearing on Xbox and Playstation.

 

I want Black Mage in more than any other 3rd party character, but for the sake of color diversity, I feel he'd bring too much blue to the Mega Man and Sonic party—given of course the latter returns. Black Mage has so much potential, and with his varied magic, could easily show Final Fantasy's worth. His Final Smash could summon a Chocobo to ride on! Or Ultima or Meteor, which are less interesting...

 

Black Mage for SSB4!

[EXIA]

I must be the only person who Loves Nomura's work, haha. I guess I'm just a sucker for his designs..If any Final Fantasy character makes it in, they'll be related to the crystal chronicles series, let's be honest. They're exclusive to nintendo and are a (sort of) recent entry to the Final Fantasy franchise.Given that Monolithsoft's "X" is Wii U exclusive and seems to be getting a lot of attention, it'd surprise me if it doesn't at least get a nod from SSB.

[Spire]

While that argument is valid, nothing from the Crystal Chronicles subseries represents Final Fantasy as a whole, save the crystal element. Crystal Chronicles is so much a spin-off that I'd wager it'd get separate representation from Final Fantasy altogether, like how Yoshi and Wario are separate from the Super Mario series. You gotta pick something that's instantly recognizable as Final Fantasy. A Chocobo would honestly be the best bet because it'd the most well-known Final Fantasy mascot there is. A Moogle would also be a very good choice, however, Chocobos and Moogles are traditionally support characters, and neither existed in the original Final Fantasy. If the series were to get representation, I'd wager they'd look towards the very first game for inspiration.

 

Sakurai stated it was imperative that Mega Man resembled his original appearance with moves largely pooled from Mega Man 2; the only noted contemporary aspect being an uppercut taken from Marvel vs. Capcom. The difference between Mega Man and Final Fantasy lies in continuity. Every Final Fantasy game shows not only a different story, but a different world and cast of characters altogether.

 

As such, you have to look for the elements that carry over between each game: crystals, magic, chocobos, moogles, cactuar, summons: Bahamuts, Shivas, Ifrits, Odins, Gilgamesh, recognizable swords, Cids, black mages, white mages, behemoths, bombs, iron giants, etc, etc.

 

This is why I believe that not a single proper-named character (one that fits into a specific narrative) should be given representation. Wii Fit Trainer and Villager prove that even "generic" characters can find a place in Smash Bros. Black Mage is a generic Final Fantasy archetype that exists in some form or another in almost every title, with a likeness much more recognizable than most other subjects in the series. Chocobo and Moogle could be playable, sure... but again, they have more often than not been assists, whereas Black Mage was a selectable Hero of Light in FFI and since then, has been either a job of your choosing (FFI, FFIII, FFV, FFXI, FFXIV, FF Tactics), or a focused class of a narrative character, the likes of: Rydia and Palom (FFIV), Lulu (FFX), and in Vivi's case in FFIX, a member of an entire race of Black Mages. Shantotto, the heroine of FFXI was a Black Mage. Even the Cetra, the "Ancients" from FF7 resembled Black Mages. Their role and likeness have appeared in nearly every Final Fantasy game. Interestingly enough, FFVI—the last Nintendo-based core title—did not represent them at all.

 

Want to talk about Crystal Chronicles? Yukes were Black Mages. While White Mage gets nearly as much representation, Black Mage is arguably more popular and in terms of appearance, more recognizable. I think it comes down to those humble characteristics: the Jawa face, the wizard hat, the robes, the striped pants, and sometimes the curly boots.

 

Crystal Chronicles hasn't done too well since it dropped off with Crystal Bearers, a dud.

 

Black Mage for SSB4!

[HeavyZ]

So, we were all right. Nintendo fucking swims to their desks through piles of beta, cancelled, unused games and expansions! Oh, well, at least we might get new characters for smash.

I may have heard wrong, but I've read before that Nintendo get's rid of all the beta roms, iso's, and stuff like that now whenever a game is finished. Like I said, I could be wrong about that though.

[xdaniel]

Doesn't really change anything in the argument, but I'd still like to mention that Mega Man's moves come from pretty much all of the NES games, not just MM2; ex. Guts Man was in MM1, Spark Man was in MM3.

[SeithDarkwraith]

Black Mage is actually a playable character in Super Smash Flash 2 on PC.

[KamAlsh]

Black Mage is actually a playable character in Super Smash Flash 2 on PC.

Not to come of as rude, more skeptical, how is that important?

[Spire]

Because Mega Man is also in Super Smash Flash 2 and therefore we can expect to see Goku, Ichigo, Naruto, and Sora.

 

Though... Lloyd Irving actually has a chance of being in Smash 4 considering he belongs to Namco-Bandai. However, if he gets in over Pac-Man I will puke.

[EXIA]

I'd just like to say, I'm disappointed that Megaman from the Battle Network series probably won't be anything more than a sticker or trophy

 

Also, on the Final Fantasy topic. That was more my way of saying "Final Fantasy probably isn't going to be in SSB at all". With FFXV being PS4 exclusive and recent Nintendo consoles getting nothing but the occasional re-release of older titles, I strongly doubt that any representative of Final Fantasy will make it in.

 

I get your points, they make tons of sense. But unless there's something for Ninty to gain from it (namely a bigger reboot of FF on Nintendo consoles), I can't see it happening.

[Mellow]

Because Mega Man is also in Super Smash Flash 2 and therefore we can expect to see Goku, Ichigo, Naruto, and Sora.

 

Though... Lloyd Irving actually has a chance of being in Smash 4 considering he belongs to Namco-Bandai. However, if he gets in over Pac-Man I will puke.

 

Similarly, if Pac-Man gets in over Lloyd Motherfucking Irving, I will cry myself to the point of dehydration, and suffer a horrible death.

[zaneebaslave]

None of those characters are in Smash. Expect to see Dixie Kong.

 

 

 

 

Which doesn't upset me in the least.

[giadrosich]

If I had to choose between Lloyd or Pacman, I'd much rather have Lloyd. The Tales series is very big and a ton of people love them. Lloyd is a recognizable character (as is Pacman) but is infinitely more interesting in design than a little yellow ball with a mouth, I'm sorry.

 

I was thinking about all of this earlier in the week, and the problem is this: Nintendo has to balance between what the fans want with what the fans will recognize (which also means that Pacman will be over Lloyd). Recognizable characters will most likely be chosen above characters that the fans want, even though sometimes those two criteria might be the same (Sonic is recognizable as well as Megaman, and I believe the fans wanted both).

 

There's a lot of people (on the smash FAQ board) who are suggesting characters from very obscure games, even games that are released in Japan only. Nintendo must sell their game--no two ways about it. They must make money. They aren't going to make money from obscure characters that no one has heard about. Wii Fit Trainer is awesome, because it encompasses a series that many, many people have played, and in fact might have gotten a Wii because of it. Villager encompasses a well known AC series and is also instantly recognizable. And so on and so forth.

 

Nintendo's goal is when people go into the store and pick up a game, they look at the back of the cover and see characters that they want to play. They aren't going to play as characters they've never heard of or seen, and thus Nintendo must market both to fans and the masses. This is why Smash Bros. is so interesting to me--the balance between the two must be met and it's very hard to predict (to me anyway) what Nintendo might put in.

 

On a side note, Josh said he would probably openly weep in joy if Banjo and Kazooie got in. Which he also states will never, ever happen.

[Netsrac]

Not only is it about whether the characters were recognizable or if the fans wanted them to be in the game, but also how they would play. Let's stick with Lloyd and Pacman for this example: (SIDE NOTE: You can go ahead and say that I don't know what I'm talking about, since I've never played a Tales game before. I won't be offended in any way)  Since Lloyd is a character from an RPG where characters learn different abilities and techniques, the possibility of him being a character with a much wider range of different attacks is way higher than with Pacman. In the game Pacman you play a yellow dot with a mouth that eats smaller dots. The only attack I could think of, is him being able to eat other players and spit them out like Kirby does. So It`d be much wiser to have Lloyd join as a Newcomer than having Pacman join, since he's not really fit to be a character in a fighting game.

[Librarian]

Not only is it about whether the characters were recognizable or if the fans wanted them to be in the game, but also how they would play. Let's stick with Lloyd and Pacman for this example: (SIDE NOTE: You can go ahead and say that I don't know what I'm talking about, since I've never played a Tales game before. I won't be offended in any way)  Since Lloyd is a character from an RPG where characters learn different abilities and techniques, the possibility of him being a character with a much wider range of different attacks is way higher than with Pacman. In the game Pacman you play a yellow dot with a mouth that eats smaller dots. The only attack I could think of, is him being able to eat other players and spit them out like Kirby does. So It`d be much wiser to have Lloyd join as a Newcomer than having Pacman join, since he's not really fit to be a character in a fighting game.

Yeah, I was about to say something similar. As much as I'd love to have him in the game, I really don't think we'll be seeing Ghirahim, his fighting style would be using only swords, similar to link. He has never been a playable character either, and although other characters are like this, Ghirahim isn't Iconic enough to make you wan't to play as him, unlike someone like Ganondorf.

As for Demise (my other presumption of who would be in the game), he was hardly in Skyward Sword, let alone other games, to be popular enough to warrant him being in the game.

Same with Skull Kid, as great a character as he was, he was only in Majora's Mask, and you didn't even battle him either, meaning he doesn't have a moveset.

[Shadow Fire]

Same with Skull Kid, as great a character as he was, he was only in Majora's Mask, and you didn't even battle him either, meaning he doesn't have a moveset.

Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess both say hi.

 

Skull Kid (or Stal Kid if you're like me and prefer the Japanese naming) was a foe in both games. OoT sported SK as an enemy for Adult Link, while TP had you fighting him twice. He actually had a lot of impact.

 

In regards to movesets, they could easily be made. Nintendo don't skimp on creativity.

[giadrosich]

Demise is freakin' awesome looking in SS, I absolutely loved his design, so much badass with it. Which always made me wonder why he had Ghirahim with him because he's so....well....non-badass (fruity).

 

But yeah, Ganondorf is way more recognizable in terms of character design. As long as they don't clone Falcon moveset with him, I'll be happy. I won't be sad if he's entirely taken out of the game though.

 

But frankly, if anything came out of Skyward Sword, I'd want it to be Groose, even over Demise. Because...GROOSE. But he won't get in, I realize that. But it needs to be done.

[Librarian]

Nintendo don't skimp on creativity.

I thought I might point out, you missed a perfect opportunity to say 'Nintendon't'. 

[Spire]

On the contrary, I think Ghirahim is badass because of his dark flamboyancy and Demise, kinda too generic and thus not-badass. Wasn't very fond of his design. Badass is subjective.

 

Skull Kid and Vaati have extremely low chances of getting in. Their time came and passed. Each appeared in three games, the last of which appeared in 2006. Demise has a very low chance of getting in, less than Ghirahim due to popularity and the existence of Ganondorf. They won't replace Ganondorf and they won't add Demise alongside him.

 

@ Faceless — yeah, Final Fantasy has a low chance of being represented; too low. It's not gonna happen.

 

As far as Zelda representation, I want the following:

• Link — "Vibrant TP" style.
• Zelda — "Vibrant TP" style.
• Ganondorf — WW style with "Vibrant TP" textures.
• Toon Link — WW style with "Vibrant TP" textures a la Brawl (not that much different, just updated textures).
• Impa — SS style with "Vibrant TP" textures. Note: replaces Sheik as a standalone character.
• Ghirahim — SS style with "Vibrant TP" textures.

[Spire]

NO MORE TRIPPING!

 

http://kotaku.com/no-more-tripping-in-the-new-smash-bros-513187770