Twilight Princess

[Tell-Tale Heart]

One thing I'm slightly surprised that was brought up in this topic is Twilight Princess having a dark story. I still don't get that vibe from the game. I'm going to say this first: The main thing that stands out to me in Zelda games are the places you get to explore, which has placed Twilight Princess at the top at the list, as well as being able to play as a wolf while wondering through them. Majora's Mask did have some nice places to explore, but no where near as beautiful as some of what Twilight Princess had to offer. One thing I liked about Majora's Mask was the dark story, which a lot of people do apperciate. The children cowering in fear in Kakariko did bring out some emotions in the player that these were people who needed to be rescued, but it still doesn't come across as dark to me. I suppose this could be partly due to the fact that one of my stories I read as a young child consisted of a little girl being bit by a snake and dying BUT that's off-topic. Even death to me isn't all that dark, it tends to matter to me more how they died. Majora's Mask had an entire valley of the dead, and all that you were really sure was that the land had a major war, as well as the mystery of the Giboes (I know I'm spelling that wrong). The Zora Queen dying was slightly dark, as well as the guards, but that's what happens in war. As for the Arbitor's Grounds, I suppose it did have dark lightening and odd enemies, but nothing that sent even a shiver down my spine. Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time had eerie parts to an extent, though I feel that they should have had more buildup to the eerie parts. Another point that was brought up was

Zant wasn't the main/final atagonist.

 

I agree that he would have been a much stronger character if he was, as well as adding to the story (I prefer Zant, anyway).

[Arceny]

One thing I'm slightly surprised that was brought up in this topic is Twilight Princess having a dark story. I still don't get that vibe from the game. I'm going to say this first: The main thing that stands out to me in Zelda games are the places you get to explore, which has placed Twilight Princess at the top at the list, as well as being able to play as a wolf while wondering through them. Majora's Mask did have some nice places to explore, but no where near as beautiful as some of what Twilight Princess had to offer. One thing I liked about Majora's Mask was the dark story, which a lot of people do apperciate. The children cowering in fear in Kakariko did bring out some emotions in the player that these were people who needed to be rescued, but it still doesn't come across as dark to me. I suppose this could be partly due to the fact that one of my stories I read as a young child consisted of a little girl being bit by a snake and dying BUT that's off-topic. Even death to me isn't all that dark, it tends to matter to me more how they died. Majora's Mask had an entire valley of the dead, and all that you were really sure was that the land had a major war, as well as the mystery of the Giboes (I know I'm spelling that wrong). The Zora Queen dying was slightly dark, as well as the guards, but that's what happens in war. As for the Arbitor's Grounds, I suppose it did have dark lightening and odd enemies, but nothing that sent even a shiver down my spine. Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time had eerie parts to an extent, though I feel that they should have had more buildup to the eerie parts. Another point that was brought up was

Zant wasn't the main/final atagonist.

 

I agree that he would have been a much stronger character if he was, as well as adding to the story (I prefer Zant, anyway).

 

It wasn't me, haha. I just said "dark and edgy" graphics.

 

I mean, I wish I could get this game and try it out.

 

But, I don't have a Wii.

And Gamecube versions are hard to find without having to hassle all over the Internet.

[Conker]

And Gamecube versions are hard to find without having to hassle all over the Internet.

 

See, you just didn't look hard enough.

[Arceny]

See, you just didn't look hard enough.

 

 

Shaddup!

 

Thanks,man.

[ISK BELMONT]

zelda twilight was a preety awesome game,the only thing that i hated was the wolf,its cool to have an inner beast but i was thinking werewolf not a little doggie,also darkbeast ganon doesnt win over oot ganons form,that form was sick!!!i dont know if i am the only one who thinks this but is this game was the perfect game to put dark link in a temple or something?i know his in ocarina but zelda twilight was perfect for a fit,instead we get a psycothic cinema with 3 darklinks that we didnt battle.

 

 

sakura: Changed your (spoiler!) to spoiler tags for you.

[mzxrules]

Colonel Blinx, I have to ask. How much have you spent playing Twilight Princess?

[Conker]

I'm sorry, but judging by this thread's track record, I can only assume you have negative intentions in asking me this. So I'm not answering until I know why you want to know.

[Dj Helyxx]

I understand that the Wii version of Twilight Princess was just "meh" but the Gamecube version was completely awesome in a variety of ways...

 

-- Zant was a badass

-- Dark story that doesn't require you to really think about why it's so dark (Majora's Mask)

-- HUGE overworld

-- Beautiful graphics

-- Diverse sword combat due to the hidden moves

-- Plenty of caves you could find that didn't require any extra add-ons (OoT and the stone of agony)

-- Beautiful soundtrack

-- Sacred Grove actually felt sacred!

 

 

I'm not trashing the game, I like it, but I prefer pretty much every other 3D Zelda title to it

 

-While Zant WAS a badass, I would have preferred it if he never went all loony and stayed the way he was portrayed in other acts of the game. Fun fact, he is based on the original villain of choice in cancelled 'The Legend Of Zelda: Oracle Of Secrets'

 

On another note, I didn't care for the Final Fantasy feel where Zant SEEMED like the bad guy but you find out he was just being used by Ganondorf.. Then again the same thing happens in the Oracle games AND Four Swords... And A Link To The Past... nevermind lol

 

-Agreed on the story, I felt it was one of the strongest, albeit somewhat slow in certain sections, plus the whole 'Tears Of Light' concept got old FAST for me- and once again, the Final Fantasy ending ruined it in a sense for me.

 

-Huge Overworld... Yes, sadly so, the only thing I was ever compelled to do in the HUGE Overworld was play 'Around The World In Less Than A Day' with Epona. Sure finding caves was cool, until I realized I always came out empty handed due to putting rupees back in chests.

 

-Graphics, no arguments, I LOVE the look and darker style.

 

-Combat... This was the ONLY Zelda game where I felt like a total badass when using a sword. Mixing hidden techniques was always fun. Ever hit a Jump Strike directly followed by a super spin attack? Awh yeah!

 

-Caves, yeah they were kind of fun, albeit slightly irritating (to my personal tastes at least)

 

-Soundtrack- I will agree with you wholeheartedly here. Twilight Princess is my second favorite soundtrack (only beaten by ALTTP) some may dislike it and I can see why, but the sheer contrast in style of tunes is remarkable.

 

-Sacred Grove actually felt sacred! Yeah, I guess. The scenery is absolutely magnificent, however it was a bit of a short segment, yeah you come to it twice and it's slightly different the second time, but that trick only works ever so often. 'Wow the bridges are absent! How will I EVER overcome this ridiculous obstacle By turning into a wolf like I've done at EVERY. OTHER. GORGE."

 

Plus, have you ever heard the beta theme? It's so much better IMO, being a remixed version of ALTTP's Lost Woods (although that may be bias on my end, due to my major preference of ALTTP over OOT)

 

Anyway, I enjoyed it my first run through... and second... and fifteenth

 

The boss fights are my favorite part of this one, every one is unique and beautifully artistic.

[Oowoon]

I personally thought Majora's Mask was the best of them all. I loved many of the activities that could be done. I also think Majora's Mask had a much darker story than Twilight Princess, I mean, In MM, you're dealing with the end of the world. Twilight Princess ranks 3rd on my list, with Majora's Mask as 1st, and Skyward Sword 2nd.

 

Majora's Mask being first in my list could probably be due to me actually being able to get it in the Christmas of 2000, (It's the gold holographic one too)

[Mallos31]

I love Twilight Princess quite a lot myself, as well as every other Zelda game. I haven't played ONE I didn't love. Though, you guys have been saying Twilight Princess was too empty. I agree there. What gets me, is the fact that Nintendo had those fields filled to the brim with things to do, and fight. Just the little bits of scenery they had originally would have made it better, but like every other Zelda game, they scrapped the little stuff for no apparent reason (As the gamecube can actually handle a hell of a lot) and simplified it. That just seems to be Nintendo's way.

[Big_L91]

I personally thought Majora's Mask was the best of them all. I loved many of the activities that could be done. I also think Majora's Mask had a much darker story than Twilight Princess, I mean, In MM, you're dealing with the end of the world. Twilight Princess ranks 3rd on my list, with Majora's Mask as 1st, and Skyward Sword 2nd.Majora's Mask being first in my list could probably be due to me actually being able to get it in the Christmas of 2000, (It's the gold holographic one too)

 

yeah man i remember that christmas  

[mzxrules]

I'm sorry, but judging by this thread's track record, I can only assume you have negative intentions in asking me this. So I'm not answering until I know why you want to know.

 

I ask because I've spent hundreds (if not thousands) of hours playing both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, and I have grown to thoroughly hate Twilight Princess, whereas I still enjoy Ocarina of Time.

[Conker]

I'm sorry, but judging by this thread's track record, I can only assume you have negative intentions in asking me this. So I'm not answering until I know why you want to know.

 

I ask because I've spent hundreds (if not thousands) of hours playing both Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, and I have grown to thoroughly hate Twilight Princess, whereas I still enjoy Ocarina of Time.

 

 

o yeah forgot

This is the opinion I have, much like you have yours. I'm not changing it.

It's this thing called personal preference? Ocarina of Time is, by itself without any mods, a horrible game; boring, repetitive, and the single most barren and content-lacking title amongst the 3D Zeldas.

 

Twilight Princess is, and always will be, a superior experience. Gameplay, story, setting, content, and so on, is vastly better than anything in OoT.

[Arceny]

 

o yeah forgot

This is the opinion I have, much like you have yours. I'm not changing it.

It's this thing called personal preference? Ocarina of Time is, by itself without any mods, a horrible game; boring, repetitive, and the single most barren and content-lacking title amongst the 3D Zeldas.Twilight Princess is, and always will be, a superior experience. Gameplay, story, setting, content, and so on, is vastly better than anything in OoT.

Of course, considering OoT was the first Zelda 3D title. It's like the Wright's brothers first airplane, compared to WWII's fighters...

[Conker]

Of course, considering OoT was the first Zelda 3D title. It's like the Wright's brothers first airplane, compared to WWII's fighters...

 

And Mario 64 was the first 3D Mario, and it's filled to the brim with tons of levels and secrets, and stuff to do.

 

I'm sorry, but more could have been done with OoT.

[Shadow Fire]

And Mario 64 was the first 3D Mario, and it's filled to the brim with tons of levels and secrets, and stuff to do.I'm sorry, but more could have been done with OoT.

To be fair, I felt that the level design in SM64 was kinda poor. That didn't detract from the enjoyment, but it still felt somewhat empty in comparison to newer Mario titles.Ironically, SM64, or rather, the DS re-release, stands as my fave 3D Mario title.

[Conker]

Well, my point still stands. But yeah, good point yourself.

 

And yeah, the remake was pretty cool; first DS game I've ever owned.

[mzxrules]

To me, Twilight Princess adds very little substance wise to the formula Ocarina started, while doing some horrible things that hurt the experience. 

 

Storywise, Ocarina of Time is considerably simpler and safer. An evil force is about to take over the world, gotta stop him... nope failed. Wake the sages and make one last final stand to save Hyrule. One of the bigger failings to Ocarina that probably came about due to lack of tech were the cutscenes that depict the major plot points... a lot of cutscenes take place in mysterious voids with little action, mostly dialog (See Link's backstory cutscene, the cutscene where the curse on the Deku Tree is discussed; the creation scene is the biggest exception, but still resorts to this at points).

 

Twilight Princess tries to be bigger, and clearly does a lot better with a number of cutscenes, but the but fails on many points, and at times confuses the player. For starters, the whole concept of the effect of the twilight on the people of Hyrule to is rather underwhelming. We do see the effect the Twilight has on the children in Kakariko (one of my favorite cutscenes), but when we rescue Hyrule Castle from the twilight, it's as if nothing had happened at all, and it takes away from our villain. In fact, the people of Hyrule Market remain oblivious to pretty much anything going on story wise (outside Telma's Bar of course).

 

Then there's that bit where the story just stops dead in it's tracks halfway through the game. You free Hyrule from the twilight finally collect all 4 pieces to the Fused Shadow, thinking it'll all be over soon when suddenly Zant makes his move, and almost kills Midna. And then... nothing? No plans, no motives, it's just... go get the mirror shards, we're going to develop the other characters now. If you consider the possibility that when the golden barrier goes over Hyrule Castle (of the style used for the Ganondorf fight), you could argue that Ganondorf sits on his hands as well.

 

In Ocarina of Time the story falls into a similar situation; After the Forest Temple, Ganondorf stays quiet and watches you run around. However, there is a purpose to this... he's waiting for you to smoke out Princess Zelda because he figured you two out.

 

Then of course there's the whole "It was Ganondorf the whole time!" thing yea yea... but after that, after the big fight and all that there's an odd cutscene where Ganondorf is near death, and then Zant shows up and cracks his neck and then he dies... it doesn't translate well.

 

Combat in Twilight Princess is more engaging than Ocarina at some parts (Goblin mobs on horseback and Gerudo Desert, Hyrule Castle, Trials, Dark Nuts?), but sucks elsewhere. Part of it is from the A.I being ridiculously slow to attack resulting in a lot of "dancing", the other part comes from the fourth hit rule (when attacking the only hit that must connect is the 4th). 

 

Combat with Wolf Link is pathetic. Midna's charge attack can take down almost any enemy you encounter in one hit, only being ineffective in tight areas. His jump attack into an enemy grab is incredibly pointless fluff. It's slow (exposing you to attacks, fourth hit rule), and doesn't even kill big Twilit monsters. Enemy knockback is also a problem if you resort to normal B attacks. Once given the option to switch, there is no reason to fight anything as a wolf.

 

----

 

There's more I want to add, but I'm a slow writer and I'm getting rather tired. One thing I have to ask though is, what's repetitive about Ocarina of Time?

[Conker]

Absolutely no Zelda game is known for their stories being amazing, so you shouldn't expect an amazing story from any of them.

But if I were to pick which had the better story, it'd be TP, because it's more entertaining and written better.

One thing I have to ask though is, what's repetitive about Ocarina of Time?

I'm not saying it is repetitive, just that it becomes that way. Sure, all games become repetitive after beating them/playing them too much, but I just feel OoT does way faster than other 3D Zeldas I've played. It's because it has the least amount of anything to do amongst the 3D titles, in my opinion.

[mzxrules]

Absolutely no Zelda game is known for their stories being amazing, so you shouldn't expect an amazing story from any of them.

 

As if I was making that argument.

[Conker]

As if I was making that argument.

You brought up story for TP as if it was some big factor to it being good or not, which made it seem like you really do expect amazing things from the story of a Zelda game.

Why, excuse me for not understanding you.

[SanguinettiMods]

I've played Ocarina of Time all the way through exactly one hundred and one times. I've played Twilight Princess all the way through once. That was the Wii Version. I have to honestly say, Twilight Princess is a beautiful game. I prefer the soundtrack over Ocarina of Time's extremely. One of the reasons is because, when you hear the OoT Hyrule Field theme that many times, it makes you want to mute the TV and turn on some Techno, well maybe not you, but myself definitely.

 

Ocarina of Time as far as a story is really wonderful. If it was a chapter book, I'd read it many many times. As a game, though, while definitely fun to mod, it doesn't really go bad, but it just gets....stale, if you know what I'm saying.

 

Twilight Princess, the Wii Version, was really fun because I was able to discover the things on my own again. I didn't use an Internet guide at all. It would really tickle my fancy to mod that, and I probably will if I can ever get Riivolution working.

 

My opinion agrees with Blinx here.

[Jason777]

The debate got a lot more heated than I expected when I made this topic... hopefully nobody gets banned as a result of it

 

@mzxrules, I guess I should give OoT a little slack for being the first 3D Zelda title but I will not change my opinion of thinking it is completely overrated. I think I said this awhile back to somebody else but it's apparant that we look for different things in Zelda games. You make some valid points but they're arguments that don't matter all that much to me personally. No hard feelings there, I hope.

 

I have to admit, that "fourth hit" rule is pretty noticeable in gameplay (I still feel like a complete boss when I'm slashing with my sword though) and that wolf-Link is pretty much useless except for teleporting, killing Twili monsters, and scaring the shit out of townsfolk. You got me there, heh.

[zaneebaslave]

I tend to judge games by their atmosphere that they portray, and the artistic integrity behind it all. This is why I like Donkey Kong Country more then Super Mario: even though technically donkey kong is an inferior platformer, it just was such an atmospheric and beautiful game. The same applies to my thoughts on TP. Gameplay-wise and story-wise, it is superior to OoT. And yet I hold OoT in far greater respects, for just how immensely creative it was in design at the time. TP was their attempt to bring back OoT, but in doing so it lost a hell of a lot of originality. It just felt like a stale bit of leftovers from the delicious OOT thanksgiving. You can microwave it to make it hot, but it just isn't the same texture or flavor. It's still good, just... Not AS good.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

I also tend to judge games by the atmosphere, which is why I loved TP so much. The atmosphere was absolutely lovely. Another thing, even though TP was a lot like OoT, I still loved it. Sure, it might be leftovers, but a few game series do that anyway. Sly 2 and 3 were almost identical other than a few things added, but I still thoroughly enjoyed both. There is a balance between copying too much and straying too far, though.
I mean, sure Epona was reused and so were many things, but they were greatly improved and added upon, which is common in game series. With as many games in the Zelda series as there is, some repetition should be expected. As I said, balance is key. Twilight Princess may have reused a little too much, but it was still an enjoyable game.
My question is.... if you hadn't have played OoT first, would TP have been more or less enjoyable? In my personal opinion, it's still equally enjoyable.
OoT is a fun game, though a bit slow-paced, it feels like, with some areas speeded up too much. TP felt like it had better pacing, with a lovely atmosphere to enjoy while going through the slower areas.