Kargaroc

I was also originally leaning towards this. I'd really suggest that, unless someone else comes up with a REALLY good idea, this should be the idea we go with.

That sounds good to me. I don't totally agree with that, since I don't know if the Triforce being on Link's hand would agree with the old pre-A+B+C 1997 story or not, since Link got the whole Triforce near the end of the game in that version. But, it might be workable. We could say that when the story was changed, they changed it so that Link only has a third of the Triforce on his hand like normal, and this was the "original" way.

You're right, they don't. I'm assuming that we're going to have the triforce graphic on the status screen. Where? I'm a little aprehensive about putting it between the medallions, since that might make people think it's a hoax because they might think "anything that's like this is a hoax". How about, when loaded, it gives the status screen a different, "alpha-esque" layout? Not for the graphics, just different placements for the items. Also, since in the story, Jason only found an unused scene, that wouldn't give us any room to add new graphics unless it can be embedded into the scene. Maybe we could say it's an old version of the zscene format that could possibly embed graphics? But then again, that might tip people off (So this old format just CONVIENTLY happens to be able to have graphics in it?). Maybe we could say it was just compressed, and not give them any idea of how it was compressed? But, that's being vague and people will want to know more. We NEED an explanation! ...! How about, the Triforce icon isn't stored as raster graphics, but rather polygons? That way, it'll be much harder to attempt to find in the vanilla ROM. Also, it looks kinda rough which is perfectly fitting for a work in progress upgrade.

Well, what would pressing A on it normally do? If it does the same thing that all the other things do (pops up an small information box) then it SHOULD be fine, unless the implimentation is different, in which case it shouldn't be selectable at all.

I'm glad you're thinking on releasing what you have - many hacks of past would just drop off the face of the earth and never be heard of again.

The new behaviour of the warps would be "explained" by the bit about the "unused" scene loading code being active in the story.

I was just thinking a Triforce icon somewhere on the start screen, selecting it either crashes or displays empty text boxes depending on what selecting it does. For the blade beam, when you're at full health, a modified version of the Alpha sword model (slightly enlarged, and the hilt removed, to appear as a glow effect) would appear over your sword, and if you try and use it, the game crashes. The effect of the blade beam would be because of the upgrade, not because of a special sword. This wouldn't really need a new icon.

This could work. It would be much more of a surprise as well if the game freezes on use. A small note: If the sword is to glow, it should probably use the early sword model as the glowing model (the way the sword glows in Wind Waker, except simplified, and in this case mismatching models)

I could see that, when used as an item. I wouldn't expect the Triforce to be an actual equipable item though. I would think of it more like a status menu thing. That's what it was in the other games.

I think this would tie into xdaniel's plan, of having a warp to an unrelated area (like room 116 or something) at the very end. Also, that would make it non-playable. I mean, this kinda goes against the WIP-like nature of the dungeon, but you at least gotta be able to get the Triforce and use it as an item or something. Else, we might as well make something completely different. The Triforce images were some of the earliest Zelda 64 images released. Hmm... How about making the Triforce powerup unstable and likely to crash the game? It could of possibly been Room 125 (early Hyrule Castle garden), which used an old graphics storage format. I think that's what the problem was... I just know Zeth made a fix for it.

I've been thinking, how about using select puzzles from other dungeons (particularly the Water Temple)? Because, maybe, when it was supposedly "cut", some of the puzzles would've been incorporated into other dungeons. I say particularly the Water Temple because it was added late in development, and anything cut earlier on puzzle wise would've probably been dumped into it. The Forest Temple probably as well, since I'm assuming that it's puzzle layout was vastly different at the time this "was cut". The first puzzle that comes to mind is the block puzzle near the beginning of the Water Temple, where you have to push the blocks in the tunnel to progress. It's simple enough to be fitting in the Zelda 64 style, easy to implement, and it's archatecture is also very Zelda 64-esque. BTW, I also updated my Zelda 64 style description https://www.the-gcn.com/topic/2537-lets-make-a-hoax/page-3?do=findComment&comment=40569

I believe they did, though you were supposed to use them with the meddallions. So yes, special arrows are allowed. What about Tunics? There are prototype screens that show different tunics, but not during early A+B+C (the original, with druping C icons and graphics from A+C). In that case, we should disallow tunic puzzles, not like there is much.

How about, when obtaining the Triforce, it displays empty text boxes? Kinda like how the unused cutscenes in Majora's Mask display empty text boxes...

Since I'm making this resource sheet, what items should we disallow for making puzzles exactly?

Works for me My only concern is that maybe the "miniboss" rooms shouldn't be used for traveling floors. Perhaps have their own rooms for that. Like an entrance room or something. As for the miniboss rooms themselves, I'd do as xdaniel said. Or maybe, a few miniboss rooms could be used as entrance/exits as a temporary thing. The older levels would have them.

Wait... wasn't Child Link not even in the game unitl later? Well I'm not amazingly knowlegable about the geneology of the dungeons, but I'd have to bet that these images depict a very early version of the outside of the Spirit temple. This is up in the air of course, but usually, USUALLY, if a dungeon was made, it probably made it into the game in some form. The Light temple being an exception of course. Of course, just by looking at the images do you get a feeling for how much different it could of been. Which basically means you have almost free reign over the design of the puzzles.

Each segment of the dungeon could have it's own miniboss? That would be pretty cool, though I don't actually know how doable that is, it depends on what kind of minibosses they are. On another note, we should probably have a quick cheat sheet that describes in simple and consise terms, what we want to see. Stuff like, what [kinds of] puzzles we want to see, a brief description of the setting for each segment (Wind Temple, Ice Temple segments for example). I'd be willing to do that.

That would be pretty cool actually though I would wait until it's almost been released to do any planing. Gotta keep the reaction spontaneous and such. On another thought, it would allow us to break the dungeon a lot more than before. Maybe we could make a fully functional dungeon, and then break it, and offer the original design as the "restoration"? Also, some things I've noticed about the Zelda 64 style I've noticed that, there's not much detail. Most polygons are kept large, any detail usually being through (quite low resolution) textures. The textures themselves look a lot like the final textures, except they too lack small details that the final ones have. For instance, the dead grass on Hyrule Field which wasn't there in early versions. They also seem to be stretched a lot, giving an iconic blurry look, in adition to the lack of detail. Also... Everything's a lot more colorful. Bright oranges and reds and browns and blues abound, where as in the final game, everything's quite muted. The dungeon design seems a bit more labyrinthine than the final. The rooms also seem more compact (though not necesarrily dense), despite being less detailed. For instance, the amount of hallways is much higher, and they seem a bit more integrated into the dungeon archatecture. Ceilings also tend to be lower. This style actually shares much in common with Mario 64, in particular the blurry textures on large polygons. It's quite iconic. Though where as Mario 64 is almost exclusively cartoony, Zelda 64 tries to be more realistic with the same archatecture. Almost industrial.

The fixed version? Here's the OBJ https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16672629/Player_NewS.7z I also made an alternate version that was a triangle instead of a hexagon, but it didn't get very far. Nonetheless, I included it's obj as well.

Ah! I will fix it! Hmm...

What will the entrance look like? Similar to the Chamber of Sages? I made a little warp pedestal for possibly where the player spawns when first arriving. Untextured, though I said I wasn't amazing at texturing. OBJ file here incase anyone wants to improve it. I imagined it as having small lights (orbs?) in the small holes in the pillars.

That will be fine

I'd support debug mode being required to complete a few rooms, as long as the dungeon as a whole isn't fundamentally broken. Like, for instance, puzzles that look like they could be completed, but require some item that was removed, or something. I can think of very few items that actually got obliterated, so... I don't know. But, considering this is a pretty high profile dungeon story wise, it would probably make sense for it to use all of the player's ablities. It would be interesting to see, though. One thing: Make sure that the effects of solving the puzzle can be activted in some way, or else the dungeon could be made completely unplayable. Edit: Or maybe provide codes to get around the broken puzzles. That might seem more realistic, since the abiity to get around every broken puzzle might tip people off unless it's the best puzzle design ever.

Seems pretty good, as long as the switches still do what they should. About music... Sticking to the Mario 64 music format limitations? I guess there's not that much, similar to the Fast3D vs F3DEX thing with graphics, but still, if the music is too complex, it would possibly break the suspension of disbelief. I'd assume the music was created pretty late in development, as with most games. But we want music, so it would have to be simple music. I mean, it would still be the theme of the dungeon but vastly simplified, possibly resembling an engine test. If you don't know what I mean, then in TWW, there's a series of 32 (!) test rooms for testing the enemies. 31 of them are just a plain cubical room, but the last one is a very old, simplified version of the first room of the Earth temple. It was used for testing the Miniblins because they can walk up walls, and that's difficult to test with a cube room. I was thinking, this, except for music.

That sounds really epic But it's hard to decide if we shoul. I'd stay away from just using items in puzzles all willy nilly. If an item couldn't possibly exist at the time this is supposed to have been scrapped, then there should be no puzzles that make use of them. Though I do have an idea to maximize the amount of items you could design for, which basically assumes that certain items could of possibly had different names, or implementations. For instance, any puzzles that make use of the spells should refer to them as medallions. Other items would probably have to have made up names but that's just fine. By the way, if this would've been real, it would probably just been a broken mess of actors and object flags that don't exist anymore. Of course, that would be fun to mess around with for the first fifteen minutes, and then you'd get bored. We want something that's fun to play. Certainly a very fine line to walk...