NightSteel

[Tell-Tale Heart]

I will be posting the introduction to my Webcomic, Nightsteel, here

[Tell-Tale Heart]

[Tell-Tale Heart]

[Spire]

Sweet logo! Purple and orange is

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Ah, thank you very much! I had two friends help out with critique and suggestions on it.

[Storm]

You've really improved over the years! I love those designs!

 

Here are some tips though:

- Too much negative (empty) space around characters. 

- Too much white, especially in the second page.

- Perspective needs work.

- Don't make too many bleeding shots (Where a character pops out of a panel), save that for actual action scenes!

- Character posture is stiff.

- Font is alright, but probably make it a tad bigger.

 

Here's a tip: Make the most out of your pages! 

Also plan out your panels more. Experiment with your shots.

 

 

 

Here's how I would've probably done it. Probably with even less white and bigger or more panels, but I don't know what happens next in your story.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Sure, I'll keep those tips in mind, and thanks!
I already have the two next pages started, so it might be a little while before I can start using the tips, though.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

[Spire]

Sure, I'll keep those tips in mind, and thanks!I already have the two next pages started, so it might be a little while before I can start using the tips, though.

 

Frankly, no. You can employ them right now. Three pages is nothing and you can rework what needs revision right now. That was some really good advice on Storm's part.

[Storm]

Don't make the panels so big for something as simple as ( ... ), you need to really consider how you use your space. In fact you should always conserve space and save the big shots for drama. Not only that, it'll help with the negative space problem. 

Also try to vary the shots a little more. Too many medium shots!

 

If I were you I would've put the (...) in the same panel as the masked guy's dialogue.  

 

[Spire]

You could easily consolidate all three of your current pages into a single page, and depending on how you do it, you might still have leftover space. It seems you aren't too comfortable with the writing part, so "..." gets more attention than, "Plaisantier. Have you been able to locate Serene yet?" "Unfortunately I have been able to confirm that she has perished from the Taint."

 

...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, THE TAINT. I'm sorry, that might be the best/worst possible name you could have chosen. I understand what you were going for, but: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=taint

 

Also, so far we've seen your purple dude in a total of six panels and three of them are basically the exact same pose. If he's supposed to be imposing at all, that's not helping. He has a visible mouth. Make it function like a mouth. Also, I don't think your shadows are heavy enough. They are light and blurry, giving everything a paper-thin quality. Nothing feels properly weighted, and with a floating character, you need that. Consider that in the panel where you see both characters in profile, the jester's shadow is only barely darker than your sorcerer's.

 

Also, and this might sound like nitpicking, but you're using way too many pronouns. Really hard to hook me as a reader. "Taint? Originum? Benevento? Plaisantier? Serene?" With one page worth of content spread over three, you've introduced five pronouns, only one of which (Plaisantier) we understand the ownership of.

 

I say: consolidate these three pages into one and rewrite for the sake of smoother conveyance. I feel totally alienated so far. The panels are so large and vacuous that they could benefit from being shrunken down. Currently, I see half-page panels with so little detail, filled with gradient-airbrush coloring that I honestly find myself asking, "that's it?" You've got enough room in those panels to write out a lengthy conversation. Instead, you have four lines of dialog (not counting "...") spread across two pages. "Plaisantier. Have you been able to locate Serene yet?" Could (should) fit in one speech bubble. By separating the sentences, it seems you were trying to find a reason to fill space—which is good, but that might not be the best method. Fill space with more visual information, but not too much. Even a planet outside the window would add to it. Also, there's just a handful of stars outside. Look at space images.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Well, maybe instead of starting here where all the pronouns are being introduced, I could begin at a slightly later time in the story where one is explained when it's necessary. So, scrap the intro with all the mask guys and begin with the main character?
Also, Spire, I might add that your critique is appreciated, but I would also appreciate it if you worded it a little more politely, if you please.

[Spire]

Politely? How about no critique then.

 

I offered critique because I too am working on a graphic novel right now, and I've encountered similar problems—the solutions of which I wanted to share in the form of suggestion. Take it or leave it.

 

You can begin the story with these characters, just introduce them better. It's totally up to you to decide when your protagonist enters the picture.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Ah, I hadn't known that. I'll take it, then.
This was supposed to be a flashback to several years before the story began, but if it's confusing more than anything, I'll rewrite it so it's more relevant to the next scene and a bit more compressed. I'll see if I can't reuse some panels to save time, such as the top one at the beginning.
Maybe reuse the first three panels and compress them into the first page, then redo the second and third page to create the new second.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Ah, editing panels where they weren't intended to go won't work. And even if I did, there's not much I could have them say that would make sense with their poses, and there's little I could have them say, even if I started over, that wouldn't be confusing. I'll skip ahead to the next scene where things are more explained.

[Storm]

Hey, not to sound mean but if you're trying to make a quality comic then you're gonna have to work even harder. You need to take critiques more to heart rather than just "I'll do it later". I know it takes a LOT of work to make a comic. Trust me, I was in an Academy of Art summer program making a comic myself and I know. I did it by hand, including the lettering.  When people point out a lot of flaws in your plan, then it's time to change things up, and I know you've probably already got a lot of work from school, but I had work when I did mine too. I know that people have different ideas of managing their work, but if you're trying to be serious then you gotta find the time and you need to make the most out of it.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Don't worry, you weren't sounding too harsh. And you do have a good point. I'm seeing that these characters and terms have been introduced at a bad time, so I'll introduce them better at a more convenient time, so I'm scrapping these pages since they seem a bit confusing for a new reader. However, I will read over your critique and apply it to the new pages, and if I make an error in applying it to the new pages, I'll fix it. Perhaps, if you didn't mind, I'll IM you, or someone else that is willing to help, the sketches of the new pages so if there's something I did wrong, I am told at a time that's easy to correct.

[Storm]

Go ahead and message me, it'll help me practice some skills I've learned and maybe even get better myself. Spire seems to know what he's talking about better than me, though, so you should ask him if he's fine with it.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Thanks, I haven't been able to receive much help or critique until now, so I appreciate it.

[SoulofDeity]

You could easily consolidate all three of your current pages into a single page, and depending on how you do it, you might still have leftover space. It seems you aren't too comfortable with the writing part, so "..." gets more attention than, "Plaisantier. Have you been able to locate Serene yet?" "Unfortunately I have been able to confirm that she has perished from the Taint."

 

...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, THE TAINT. I'm sorry, that might be the best/worst possible name you could have chosen. I understand what you were going for, but: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=taint

 

Also, so far we've seen your purple dude in a total of six panels and three of them are basically the exact same pose. If he's supposed to be imposing at all, that's not helping. He has a visible mouth. Make it function like a mouth. Also, I don't think your shadows are heavy enough. They are light and blurry, giving everything a paper-thin quality. Nothing feels properly weighted, and with a floating character, you need that. Consider that in the panel where you see both characters in profile, the jester's shadow is only barely darker than your sorcerer's.

 

Also, and this might sound like nitpicking, but you're using way too many pronouns. Really hard to hook me as a reader. "Taint? Originum? Benevento? Plaisantier? Serene?" With one page worth of content spread over three, you've introduced five pronouns, only one of which (Plaisantier) we understand the ownership of.

 

I say: consolidate these three pages into one and rewrite for the sake of smoother conveyance. I feel totally alienated so far. The panels are so large and vacuous that they could benefit from being shrunken down. Currently, I see half-page panels with so little detail, filled with gradient-airbrush coloring that I honestly find myself asking, "that's it?" You've got enough room in those panels to write out a lengthy conversation. Instead, you have four lines of dialog (not counting "...") spread across two pages. "Plaisantier. Have you been able to locate Serene yet?" Could (should) fit in one speech bubble. By separating the sentences, it seems you were trying to find a reason to fill space—which is good, but that might not be the best method. Fill space with more visual information, but not too much. Even a planet outside the window would add to it. Also, there's just a handful of stars outside. Look at space images.

 

K, so the advice did come off as rude, but I agree the use of "Taint" made me rofl. Especially when the reiteration that "Unfortunately I have been able to confirm that she has perished from the Taint."  XD

 

Sorry, I've seen jackass a few times and mind just immediately jumps to the dark side...

 

 

 

Anyway, this definately does seem interesting, and I can see the improvement with each page. I read a lot of manga so I'll probably be keeping an eye on this

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Yeah, I might try another word, but I could end up with something even worse. But thanks, I appreciate it!

[Spire]

TTHeart, what is preventing you from consolidating the three pages into one? Is it pacing? I'm simply curious. If you'd like, I could work with you to make this happen. Maybe 1.5 pages, with the latter half of Page 2 being new content.

 

I'd be really interested to see you rewrite this entirely. Sometimes it's best to try out "how about this?" scenarios just to see where your mind is currently. It's easy to get attached to existing work, particularly the longer it lives untouched. Sometimes we make work then leave it alone, allowing it to develop a false sense of immortality when really it's just our own ignorance of what should have been changed long before.

 

Also, I still don't see how my critique was rude in any way. I took the time to honestly point out where I think this could be improved. I did not look for places needing development, I simply saw them; I was not searching for parts to bash—that would be cruel and meaningless, or rude. I care about the future of this project, which is why I invested myself in hopes that it might improve. I think the graphic novel medium is awesome (which is why I'm pursuing it myself) and want nothing more than success for TTHeart's endeavor.

 

So yeah, let me know if you want to work hands-on or within this thread. Either way, don't give up now, and certainly don't feel diminished because people have seen flaws! Work is only as good as the worker makes it. You're the artist, we're the audience. If we're displeased now, then this is the best possible time to refine it into the material it needs to be! Better to define the core early than end up with 50 mediocre pages before realizing the flaws.

[Conker]

Here's the thing about Spire's critique (from what I'm gathering):

He's very passionate about art, so when in a discussion of it, especially about improving it, etc. he may come off as a bit strong with it.

(sort of like how I do with things I have a strong passion for, I guess)

 

He doesn't mean to be rude, or anything of the sort. And stuff. Just sayin'.

 

---

 

Anyways, I like the character designs in this comic a lot.

[Tell-Tale Heart]

Ah, I'm beginning to see where your coming from, Spire. Forgive me for misunderstanding, and thanks for the support. I was having a bit of a bad day when I read your posts, so I may have been in the wrong mindset. I'm fine now, though. And I actually woke up this morning with a few ideas on how to retry this scene, and rewrite it. Whatever the case, I'm wanting to introduce this character, Ghadin, in perhaps only two pages or one if I can manage that.

First of all, I could have him out in what I call The Paths (If I need to change that name, let me know), moving on his way. A military-type character I have would approach him and draw his sword (There are many "factions" in the Paths, and they don't get along, which is explained in the first chapter). Ghadin would then simply wave his claw over him, freezing him in place, and say something along the lines of, "You'll remain unable to move for only a few minutes. Let us hope that no one else arrives here in that time,"  to show the reader what the heck just happened. Then Ghadin would move on his way.

Another idea; this guy builds and creates his own manor. It could show a hall in the manor that isn't complete, where it just drops off into the abyss. He moves over to it and raises his hand (claw, blades, hand), and a hall appears. In the next panel, it's fleshed out with a decorative flooring and some archways.

Both ideas would remove the confusing pronouns, and would introduce one of the more important characters and locations.

That's what I have in my head so far. Thanks for the support, guys, and please let me know if any of these sound good

[Tell-Tale Heart]

All right, for the Taint, I'm thinking of renaming it to something such as, "The effect," or "The (Name here) effect."
Unless any issues arise with that?

 

Update: It is now called the Ruination.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Tell-Tale Heart